How to Listen to Music

General — By on October 17, 2011 7:52 am

Most people think headphones are just a device to listen to music through, but that’s where they’re all wrong. Headphones are meant to highlight what the artist spent weeks composing, playing, singing, editing, mixing, etc… Let’s say an average artist decides he wants to record a CD. He starts looking around for composers and spends money on each individual song just for the tune. Or he will spend hours and hours (or days or weeks) composing it on his own. It then goes to the musicians to play, and albums can sometimes have five to ten musicians or, in some cases, a full blown  orchestra. That does not come cheap. The singer then spends weeks recording for the songs.  It then gets mixed and edited for the CD. This is all just a quick version of what goes on in making a CD; the full version is for a different article.

My point is that a LOT of time and money and energy goes into making an album, and all they charge for one is a measly 15 dollars. In the Jewish music world, there aren’t enough  CD’s  sold for them to make a decent parnassah. Take Shlock Rock, for example, who has  made over 30 CD’s!  I’m sure he is doing fine, but if this was the non-Jewish world, he would probably be a millionaire! People who are making albums are not in it for just the money; they make a CD because they feel they have something to give over.

I’m not saying we should run out and give them money, I’m just saying we need to be able to hear their music the way it was recorded and meant to be heard. When we listen to music on some regular speakers or headphones, we hear a nice tune but we are not listening to the song the way it was meant to be heard, with the full music appreciation. I recently bought a pair of Monster headphones and started listening to all my music all over again. Some songs sound completely different than they sounded before. You don’t have to spend too much (like my crazy expensive ones), but just make sure that when  you do listen to music that you like, use the best listening device you can afford to capture the music’s true beauty and how the artist meant the song to be heard.

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36 Comments

  1. Leah says:

    How about just not copying the cd for all your friends. Also once a person buys a cd its their choice how they want to hear it – i doubt the singers care where they listen to it or how, they just dont want us to copy it! Thats the reason why mbd is stopping to make albums – its our own fault.

  2. yossi says:

    $15 is a lot of money! and for a hard copy, its easily $17 with tax! I think if they would charge $10 for the albulm, MUCH more people would buy cds… This is Not just a theory, with 8th days album was available on amazon for $8 and itunes for $10, and i know tons of people who bought the mp3 download, even though they could have easily stolen it from their friends. Why is the same 8th day mp3 $12 on your website?…. I personally buy music, but i’m a jewish music enthusiast.. and even so, there are plenty of albulms, which i’m sure are great, but i have chosen to live without, because of the steep price.. like b levine 3 kinderlach 2 etc… And i know hasc is tzedakah, but they have a bad business… I bought it and is was phenomenal! When mentioned to MANY friends to buy, the unanimous response was ”way too expensive”… $25?! They would more than have made up for it charging even $12…. They have to start catering to the casual music fan,,, Thats my 2 cents..

  3. price says:

    I have to say, there are many good reasons for not buying Jewish music. There are too many artists, too much subar music, too little thought or creativity in so many of the latest albums.

    If you dont want to buy CDs, I am with you on many good reasons that present themselves. But the extra 2 dollars from iTunes pricing structure to the Jewish music one is just a lazy argument. First of all, iTunes sells millions of downloads, the artists make millions of dollars on concert tours, perfumes, clothing lines, TV deals, heck, Jenifer Hudson won an OSCAR! They can afford to give away their music (in Lady Gagas case, she sold her CD on Amazon for 99 cents!!

    But lets be honest with ourselves. 11.99 for a digital download of a CD, a mere 2 bucks more than iTunes, is not a reason not to buy a CD you are interested in.

    Just think to yourself how much you spend on every day items in the last month. When you go buy 3 rolls of sushi you spend more than 12 bucks. How much do you spend for a pair of pants, 40 dollars? 80 dollars? Those designer glasses, $250? Your new iPhone you just got? $200? Your new iPad? $600??? 3 pair of black socks for Yom Tov, $12? Your Lulav and Esrog cost you anywhere from $60 to $120, for a Mitzvah, sure, but as you said, HASC is a Tzedakah, you will spend $120 on a Lulav and Esrog, but $25 once a year to HASC is too much?

    Yes, the hard CD is closer to $17, but a CD is something you keep around for years. I’m still listening to the CD I bought of 8th Days first album, over 6 years ago. I bought it in Eichlers for probably 18 dollars. But I am still using it 6 years later!

    Like I said, there are many reasons not to buy new music, but complaining that its too expensive is not one of them.

    It’s sad that as a people, we give more Tzedakah than probably any other group of people, we are kinder than any other people, we are more loving than any other people, we also spend more money on so many things. Tuition that cost us tens of thousands of dollars a year, we get the newest hottest leased cars and mini vans, we buy homes in communities that cost 10 times the national average. But when asked to support music from artists we love, 2 dollars, 120 cents, becomes the reason someone will steal, or not buy the CD.

    I’m not saying all Yidden are rich and have unlimited amounts of money. I know times are tough and people struggle with money. But considering what most of us DO spend our money on, I can’t believe $2-$5 is reason enough not to buy a CD. (that you are interested in ..)

  4. JustAFan says:

    It’s not so simple that if one company charges a price everyone else is able to charge it.
    You have to consider things like marginal costs and overhead costs.

    If wal-mart charges $2 for a bowl, and the same bowl is at a little shop down the street for $5, it doesn’t mean the little shopping is earning an extra $3. In fact they are probably making less. iTunes is like the wal-mart of the online music industry in that they sell so much the marginal price (cost to produce another item/sell another CD) is very low. For them to add a CD to their database is very easy and costs are minimal but this isn’t the case with smaller sites. Marginal cost has to be equal to or lower than the price in order for the company to make money. The higher the number of sales, the lower the marginal cost and eventually the lower the price. Companies, especially small ones, WANT to charge a lower price in order to sell more product. But easier said than done.

    The price is determined by supply and demand– it’s the highest price that consumers are willing to pay and at the same time the lowest price that producers are willing to charge. If every single person decided to stop buying songs from iTunes after they largely went up to $1.29, the price would mysteriously return for .99 because iTunes can afford it. Apple can afford it. But people don’t see the 30 cents as a big enough deal to find another site.

    Artists can’t just start selling their CDs for very low prices. They would lose (even more) money on each CD they produced. And then the only singers would be really rich ones, and they’d basically be paying us to listen to their music. And that is a job I’d take.

  5. Sunny says:

    Yossi, I agree! I was just wondering, in the days where they only made tapes they charges $10 for an albums (and according to MBD, they actually made a profit). CDs don’t cost more than tapes and downloads cost even less so why did the price go up?

  6. Mr google says:

    FYI- if you paid $10 for an MBD cassette in 1988 with inflation that would cost you $18 in 2010. Look it up here if you like.

    Also. If you recall, the price of cassettes did rise in its dying years, especially as there were less duplicators with those machines were around. Most large companies for rid of their cassette machines years before the Jewish music works finally dumped tapes.

  7. Sunny says:

    Mr Google, I paid $10 for the first Shalsheles Junior albuum about 5 years ago (just before they stopped making tapes). At that time, the CD version was $15 for the same album. I was just wondering why this was the case, Cds don’t cost mor ethan tapes to produce.

  8. yossi says:

    Music, especially mp3, do not cost per item… It is not a risk, inasmuch, as all sales, are 100% prophet (except to pay the website, presumably, for what you sell)…
    The fact is that iTunes has lowered the price of music… Its not about how much you spend, but what you get in return. No one likes to feel like they got ripped off, and if they feel that it is a FAIR price, they will likely come back for more.. Its all about attracting customers… I think that as stated the extra couple bucks is not necessarily a lot, but that goes for consumer AND the seller…
    Its easy to defend them, because the the singers need to make money, BUT my point is that lowering the price, Will make them money, because much more people will buy the music… Also availability with one click buying on itunes, why isn’t All jewish music on there????! Its annoying to get, over priced and usually subpar…

  9. price says:

    Yossi, you did not respond to any of the points I made. I’m not sure who is setting the “fair” price of music. I have been buying music since the mid 80’s. When I was 13 and I ran into the local Judaica store to buy the newest Fried tape, I saved my money, worked hard for it, did odd jobs, and was very excited to buy it on my own. I never once thought the price was unfair or too high. I felt the same when I bought my first CD (also a Fried album!)

    Hey, I wish the “fair” price for the new Lexus was $150 dollars. but wishes dont set market value. I think that, as Mr Google commented re: inflation, the price of music has not risen from the 80’s, it’s actually stayed the same amount. Which is really amazing if you think about it, considering for some reason my kids tuition gets raised every single year.

    Regarding itunes, I’ve left this comment on other music sites discussing the itunes topic, no one ever has a clear and direct answer.

    I don’t understand the desperation to buy Jewish CDs on a goyishe music platform. Is anyone insisting that Cholov Yisroel milk companies should sell milk and Glatt kosher meat at Target? Or that Borders should be selling Seforim? Before stand alone music stores all went out of business, like Sam Goodys and Tower Records, no one EVER asked why the Jewish labels don’t sell their music there.

    What is the rush to send ourselves and our children to the same site that sells all kinds of pruste, disgusting Goyish music. Music with curse words, lyrics about priztzes, with cd covers displaying women barely clothed. Tell me, do you want to send your Yeshiva age 18 year old son to iTunes to buy latest MBD, and along the way he sees Beyonces latest album, cover art, music samples right there? (google it if you must …)

    The internet and technology age has created this amazing flaw in humans today, where we are unhappy when something isn’t handed to us within milliseconds. Whatever the issues you may have with the extra time it takes to download Jewish music from Gal Paz, Nigun, Sameach or Aderets sites, what are we talking about here, an extra 5-10 minutes? Once again, the entire complaint here is like non Jewish music, if it (Jewish music) were only ten minutes faster to download, 5 dollars cheaper, and available in places where treif and other goyish things were sold I’d buy it.

    If you want to see what excites frum people today, and where they spend their money, look at any Chinese auction booklet. With $500 treadmills, $600 iPads, $3000 Shaitels, $5000 trips to Miami Beach, $300 gaming systems, $8,000 leather couches …. but ask someone to pay $5 more than the goyish version, which sells in the millions per artist, and that’s “unfair” pricing.
    Oh, and the last time I checked I couldn’t buy a Taalis at Gap or JC Penny either.

  10. Just a fan says:

    @ Price — Very well said. If nothing else it is nice to support Jewish companies and businesses, especially in this economy. I moved “in town” recently and my grocery bills went up, but now I’m shopping and a frum owned place. They don’t charge more because they can; they charge more because they have to in order for the business to remain profitable.

    @ yossi
    Music DOES cost per item. It doesn’t cost per download, but when we are talking about ablums in a CD, of course it cost per item! And as far as taking the marginal cost argument to downloads, it works just fine. I don’t know how it works for each site, but there is generally a cost to add a CD to the site, even if it is simple as the time it takes to download the album to the database and send out verification emails, hire people for tech support and whatever else.
    It is not 100% prophet at all. If so, then let’s you and I get together and start a music company. We’ll be rich! Overhead costs MUST be considered.

    Here’s another reason why not everyone puts their CD on iTunes: It oftentimes costs a $750 fee to put your music on iTunes!!! Since many frum people don’t use that for tznius reasons, it doesn’t pay to put the music on there. When they are making such a small profit on each album, it isn’t worth the hassle.

  11. Just a fan says:

    @MichelsThoughts — did you expect this? lol

  12. Kol Isha says:

    So, let me see if I have this right.

    People have no problem spending $20 to get their daughter’s ludicrously overpriced American Girl doll’s hair styled. They are perfectly comfortable buying Kipling knapsacks and Lacoste polo shirts for their preschoolers, Coach scarves, bags and shoes, Juicy zip ups and Ferragamo belts for their sons and daughters. Kids in elementary schools have BlackBerrys and babies are being wheeled around in $700 Bugaboos.

    But at $18 CDs are too expensive? Sorry, am not buying it.

  13. Sunny says:

    Price, there are thousands of non-Jewish singers and most aren’t making millions.
    What Yossi is basically saying is that there is a maximum price consumers are willing to pay. That’s why when milk prices go up they make the container of ice cream smaller instead of lowering the price. Itunes/Amazon set a base price for music- $10/$9 an album and .99 a song. This is the base price consumers want to pay and yes there are definitely music stores that suffered.
    The ppl. who buy 3 rolls of sushi for $12,designer glasses, an ipod AND ipad,a luxury car, wear designer clothing and acessories, push bugaboos and pay full tuition either buy every Jewish CD out there (whether they listen to it or not), don’t buy music or don’t buy Jewish music.
    I love Mostly Music and their downloads are great and that is how I generally buy my music. However, Mostly Music doesn’t have every Jewish Album available for download and I generally end up not buying those albums.
    I frequently get Amazon gift cards and would love to use them to buy Jewish music.
    However, this is all that’s available there.
    Sameach at the Wheel,
    all Abie Rotenberg’s albums (dveikus,aish,journeys),
    Tamar Rudy,
    Brad Schachter,
    Yosef Karduner,
    the Maccabeats,
    Shaindel Antelis,
    Rebbetzin Tap,
    some Lipa,
    some Hasc and ohel concerts,
    old MBD and Fried albums,
    and 8th day.
    Yes, it’s a lot of Jewish music to choose from but many of my favorite artists and albums aren’t sold on Itunes. I would love to see more albums available there.

  14. Leah says:

    Thousands and thousands of dollars go into cds. And i think people are a little confused with the math. Please remember how many middlemen there are when cds are sold in stores. There is the distributor and the store who has to make money as well. So the producer is not making $16 on the cd he is maybe making nine or ten. Ask them to bring down the price in the store to $10 then they are actually making 4 or 5 dollars on every cd! if they (in this market and economy with alot of bracha) sell 10,000 (and believe me most singers dont even sell that much in this market) then he can almost be in debt in relation to how many thousand of dollars were spent before.
    As for why its not sold on itunes, I definitely agree with price. You have your priorites in order unlike so many other people today. This is besides the issue of the fact that “jewish” music today is hardly that. The few that uphold the real jewish tradition like MBD and Fried and Shwekey and a few others deserve not only 16 dollars but 60 dollars for each cd they sell! Go out and support what is real and will not affect your children in a horrible way like I have seen happen in front of my eyes.

  15. Just a fan says:

    @Sunny
    Of course there is a maximum price people are willing to pay. And a minimum price people are willing to sell at. If people won’t pay the $12 for a CD but the site can’t make a profit charging less, then the business stops. Not sure what you mean with the milk analogy… Like I said before, when you consider hte “base price” there are more factors that go into it than what someone will pay. For example I would like a new car but I can only afford to pay $5,000 for one. So that transaction isn’t going to happen. Just because that’s what I’m “willing to pay” doesn’t mean the price can just go there.

    @ everyone
    I just found some really interesting numbers.
    Average numbers of CDs an artist needs to sell in a month to make minimum wage:
    -Albums in a store: 1,161 – 3871 (depending on royalty deal)
    -Albums on iTunes: 1229
    (I have no clue about royalty deals and how they tend to work in the frum music world).

    Based on the numbers of frum Jews, that’s gonna be rough to hit. That’s not even considering all the money they invested.

  16. yossi says:

    @sunny put it well…. I’m not talking in theory… yes we should support JM, yes if i could afford Lacoste, i surely wouldn’t be having this discussion… The fact it though, that most people are middle class, and the singers can cry all they want about making a prophet… They wouldn’t be singing if they weren’t making money. Even if they are loosing money from cds, its gets their songs out there, and they’ll make more money in concerts because of them.. I’m just saying i think the jm singers, are thinking all the arguments you guys are making, and they end up loosing money.. And i think they have the wrong approach….
    Kinda parenthetically, I Downloaded Moshe Hechts new albulm from amazon today… not only was it $8 (which is may be too cheap) and come with cloud storage, so i could listen where ever i want.( i understate MM can compete with that).. but the tracks came clean, with the names nice, ready to be put on my ipod. there were no extra words or spaces or name of the album in each title, like there are from mostly music downloads….

  17. Sunny says:

    A few points:
    Itunes and Amazon eliminate the need for a middleman making it very easy for new artists to get their albums on the market.
    The youngsters are the ones mainly supporting the music industry. They do not have a family nor do they have bills to pay so they have the money to spare to buy music. Ppl. in their 30s and up have bills to pay and are less interested in spending $20 on a CD. They buy less CDs than teens (they are also not glued to their ipod the way teens are).
    MBD doesn’t appeal to the teenage market the way Lipa and 8th day do. That’s probably why he isn’t selling as well as he used to. In the 60s, 70s and 80s the teenagers were the ones buying his albums and that was why he did well.
    And can someone please explain to me why 5 years ago a CD costed $5 more than a tape. According to Mr. Google it should cost more. WHY?
    Price: Costco, Stop and Shop, Shop Rite and Wegman’s all carry Cholov Yisroel products and some kosher meat products and I gladly buy from them. Barnes and Nobles doesn’t sell seforim (Borders closed so I couldn’t use that example) but they do sell cookbooks published by Artscroll and Feldheim. Gap may not sell tallesim but they do sell tznius clothes and many frum ppl. prefer to buy from them instead of supporting frum stores.
    I don’t like Itunes either, I buy my music from Amazon there’s no pictures.

  18. Yehuda says:

    I think the problem is not the price, but the self pitying, condescending attitude that we as consumers hear continuously. It’s as if we owe something to the singers.

    All we hear is, “We work so hard…you have no idea what goes into producing albums…everyone is copying, we can’t make parnasa…” And on and on it goes.

    Everyone works hard. Heck, a doctor studies for almost a decade before s/he can treat a patient. No one is crying for them.

    Look at the article that generated all these comments. It has this ridiculous assertion that because Joe Shmoe spent 500 hours in a studio, I am somehow obliged to listen to the CD on expensive headsets. Please. Farmers worked really hard at planting, plowing, sewing, harvesting and distributing vegetables. Am I now not allowed to use a bad salad dressing?

    (I’m not saying the author is in the industry, but clearly, he drank the Kool Aid.)

    Mordechai Ben David has been putting us on guilt trips for years, and his “I can’t afford to make more albums” shtick is so tiresome and annoying, I will not be buying his latest.

    This is a business. Produce quality, and we will buy it.

    Also, I don’t need to be able to buy music on Amazon or iTunes, but reasonably priced single song downloads should be standard.

    While we’re on the subject of Music companies, it would be nice if Mostly Music had even the tiniest drop of customer service, and would answer questions they are sent. I’ve never dealt with a company before that simply does not send a response. Disgraceful.

  19. Just a fan says:

    @Yehuda
    I once had an issue and I called on the phone , my issue was resolved quickly. Try that method.

  20. Sunny says:

    Just A Fan: I am willing to pay $12 for a CD with at least 10 original songs from an artist I like. I am not willing to pay $18. I am also not willing to pay $12 for a wedding album. But, being that I can only listen to one song at a time, I don’t buy more than 2/3 albums a month. If I can buy a Jewish album on amazon using gift cards or I can buy a $12 album on Mostly Music using my own money, then obviously I’m going to buy the amazon album.
    Also, most artists don’t make a profit off their albums. But if they have a good album, they can charge more for wedding appearances. They also perform at more concerts. Singers can charge 2,000-3,000 an hour (or more) for a wedding. So I don’t really feel so sorry for them.
    Yossi: Gal Paz is selling Kinderlach 2 on their website for 9.99.
    Yehuda: I was also turned off from MBD’s anti-copying crusade. I don’t buy his albums because I’m not interested in it not because I’m copying it from someone else. I find it irritating to hear constantly that he is losing money because I and all other Jewish music listeners are burning our friend’s copy. We aren’t, we don’t want to buy his CD.
    I would also like single downloads. Many times I just want to buy one song. If the artist is one Amazon/Itunes, I buy his song and he gained a buck. If he isn’t, I find his song on YouTube ot Jm in the Am and the artist is out a buck.
    Yehuda, Mostly Music has excelent customer service. They didn’t answer your questions because they never got them (there’s a glitch in their website). Email Sruly Meyer, when I had a problem he answered me within the hour (and I e-mailed him at 8 pm). He is very on top of everything and made sure my problem was solve quickly. I do wish they had a rewards program though.

  21. Kol Isha says:

    Yehuda: If you want to use bad salad dressing on your veggies, go ahead. If you want to listen to music with cheap headphones, go ahead. The point in either case is that if you want to maximize your veggies OR your music, use the good stuff to really maximize the flavor and enjoyment of either item.

    You can buy whatever you choose to buy. I agree with you 100% that it ticks me off no end to spend serious money only to find out that an album has two good songs and the rest is sub-par music put there to fill up an album. There is no question we have the right to demand quality and we vote with our wallets.

    The only thing we owe to the singers is the mentshluchkeit and decency not to steal their music by copying it.

    But ithat doesn’t change the facts. Copying an album you didn’t purchase is stealing, plain and simple. And if you think copying music isn’t a problem, you are very sadly mistaken

  22. Kol Isha says:

    Sunny: Singers are getting 2000-3000 an hour or more for a wedding?? Sorry, not true. Unless you are talking about people like MBD and Fried.

  23. Kol Isha says:

    Yossi: Real men don’t post their comments under pseudonyms with fake email addresses. You have something to say, have the guts to not only say it but to do so without hiding behind fake email addresses. Furthermore, JMR will not tolerate personal, baseless and unfounded attacks against its writers. Consider yourself warned.

  24. price says:

    Most singers do NOT get that type of money. I think the majority maybe get between 500 and 1,000. Those are long time wedding scene guys. If you have a CD, and its a HIT maybe, maybe you can charge between 1 and 2 grand. If you are fried, mbd, lipa or shwekey you can charge more than that.

    Also, when someone copies a cd, or more bluntly, steals it, they arent just taking money from the singers, you are taking from the Parnasa of everyone who has invested time and money into that cd. From the producer, the composer, the arranger,the engineer, the duplicator, the designer the distributor, the store sales men, the people who ship the cds and deliver the cds. The driver who delivers the cd. Many, MANY more people rely on the sale of that CD to literally feed their family and make a living.

    Oh, and im STILL waiting for someone to explain to me why its ok for us to promote the sale of yiddishe music in a place that is such a massive makom tumeh. No Rosh Yeshiva in the WORLD would endorse the sale of Jewish music on a platform that primarily sells non Jewish Music. Especially with the ost popular current Jewish music featuring lyrics I wouldnt want my children to hear and cd cover I wouldnt want my children to see.

    We are separate from the Goyim, and yes, that means selling our stuff in Yiddishe places, and helping other yiddishe people make a living.

  25. Sunny says:

    Sorry I wasn’t clear, the 2,000-3,000+ is talking about MBD, Fried, Lipa, Schwecky etc.
    I have no idea how much the ‘little guys’ charge. But even a few hundred an hour is a very nice ammount.(A new singer with one album out usually has a day job unless he’s in kollel.) If they keep producing solid albums, more ppl. would want them to perform and they can charge more. A wedding singer without an album can’t charge as much for a wedding no matter how well he performs.

    Kol Isha, I totally agree with you about copying CDs. I never copied CDs without the artist’s permission and never will. I won’t lend my CDs to others who may make a copy either. Copying an album is going aganst Federal law, Halacha and common decency. If you can’t afford the album live without it and listen to live stream Jewish radio and free downloads.
    Unfortunately, there are brazen individual who have no problem going aganst the Federal law, Halacha and common decency and copy CDs anyway. These guys don’t care what you, me or MBD think of them.
    If an artist would like to protest the illegal copying he can do what Yerachmiel Begun did on his last album (on the last page of the Cd booklet, he printed the halachos of copying CDs). He can do what Fried and YBC have been doing and put out concert DVDs which are harder to copy. But please do not go and complain on every radio, newpaper, magazine and web interview how you are losing so much money because everyone is copying your CDs instead of buying it. This can turn off potential customers and that’s the last thing you want to do.
    Yes, listening to music on headphones improves the listening quality. I don’t have an expensive set of headphones, I use my apple ear buds and I hear a difference.

    Regarding our previous discussion: Jewish singles used to sell for $2.99 (may have been more feel free to correct me). Hardly anyone bought singles because why pay $3 for 1 song when you can buy 10 songs for $15. Then, someone came up wih the bright idea of copying itunes and lowering the price to .99. Many more ppl. buy singles now.
    A few years ago, no artists were on the mainstream music websites now you can find big names like Avraham Fried,Gabay,Abie Rotenberg and many others. Now consumers have a choice to continue to only purchase Jewish music from Jewish stores and websites or to buy from mainstream sites (which is cheaper). As you said, we can vote with our wallets. I think the mainstream sites are winning because more and more mainstream Jewish artists are now choosing to sell their albums there. They wouldn’t be doing this if they were losing money from it.

  26. chez says:

    I understand that the singer/production team puts a lot of money into an album. However, that was their choice, because they felt that they had a product that would sell. Selling music is no different than selling any other item! For example, if a chef labored to create an amazing meal for a customer and the customer doesn’t find it to his taste, he will leave and not come back and he will definitely not recommend the restaurant to any of his friends. When are the music industry people going to realize that people will only buy their products if they are original, pleasant, and inexpensive!?
    No one asked every other yeshiva guy to put out an album and then expect the entire neighborhood to buy it. No one either should expect everyone to put the cd in their home studio and listen to it on their $300 a pair headphones so that they can tell the subtle half note that the producer so painstakingly inserted into the bridge. All the listener wants is good music to pop into his car and enjoy (at least that’s all that I want lol). Look, it’s true that a lot goes into creating music and jewish entertainment, but I’m sick of hearing people affiliated with the industry complain and complain that no one appreciates their work. We do, just no more than anyone else’s hard work.
    Singers:
    Thank you for the entertainment! But maybe your next album should be a little simpler or less expensive (i.e. record the drums, bass, and piano track together instead of in separate sessions). It seems to me that we are becoming responsible to support singers. That seems ridiculous to me! If they are in fact talented (singer’s and businessmen), they will succeed!
    Hatzlacha!

  27. Mr Google says:

    For the guy who mentioned amazon gift cards. MostlyMusic also has gift cards available. http://www.mostlymusic.com/gift-cards.html/

  28. price says:

    Please see my comment regarding who else loses money aside from singers. Although, I still don’t quite get why its ok to say that singers shouldn’t complain about people stealing their music because they make X amount of money singing at a wedding. How does how much money a singer makes bear any difference on whether people can steal their music and whether they are allowed to be upset about it. Since when did the amount of money a person makes somehow make it ok to steal from them or require that they shouldnt complain someone is stealing from them.

    Altogether I still dont understand why people have issues with someone saying, “hey please dont steal from me”, can I steal a new iphone because apple has 85 billion in cash right now? And if I do steal and iphone and apple complains people are stealing iphones then you will say it turns people who DO buy iphones off and anyway apple has 85 billion dollars in cash, what gives them the right to complain about people stealing iphones. Hey!! Here is an idea, drop the price of iphone from 600 retail (or $199 with new contract) to 200 retail and FREE with contract and then maybe more people will buy them and less people will steal them …

    I also think its weird that someone who BUYS cds would say a singer complaining other people who steal cds would turn off a PAYING customer. I would think that, like myself who does buy a lot of cds, people who “burn a copy” get me quite angry. Why do I invest the 12 or 15 dollars into a cd, when some other shlub thinks its ok to steal. I would think people stealing would anger the people who pay even more! You aren’t required to buy a cd because a singer is complaining people are stealing. They are NOT connected. You go on buying cds based on whatever method you use to decide if you want to buy a cd. Based on a sampler, the hype, the single, the concert they just did, the article you read … you keep doing your research, buy CDs because you are interested in the music. But to say you will stop buying cds because a singer complains someone ELSE is stealing? I just dont get this logic.

    There are many points here that myself and others have raised that none of the naysayers have addressed.

    -Pritzues/Tznius on goyish music sites.
    -Stealing from other people who rely on cd/dvd sales for parnasa (other than singers)
    -Why singers are reprimanded for complaining about stolen property
    -The concept that goyish singers stopped relying on cd sales to make money decades ago. Goyish singers make millions off of endorsements, commercials, perfumes, clothing lines, and most importantly concert tours (Justin beiber made over 60 million last year from concerts) They can afford to give away their music on itunes for nothing. As opposed to yiddish industry none of those options are available (ask Lipa how his hagada sales were ….)

    …. And another thing. There are commenter’s here who make statements that they can not back up. For instance, while you are correct that no one bought physical cd singles that were sometimes as much as 4.99!!! (how crazy was that) people selling their singles on itunes and mostlymusic for 99 cents is not an effect of that cause. Most singers/producers today realized what many in marketing realize today. Give a little bit for less (or free) and people who like it will buy the whole thing. The smarter thing to do is give away your single for free (as Yisroel Amar and going back to Yeedle’s Lev Echad) as thats the best PR for your product. In fact, I can tell you because I know from very reliable sources with real itunes sales figures, singles do NOT sell on itunes. The few really animated music fans (such as people like Yossi) go and grab it, but trust me when I tell you we are talking hundreds of downloads, not thousands ….both on itunes and mostlymusic sales figures.)

    Let me just wrap up another long comment by addressing another issue. There seems to still be a large amount of denial in just how bad the ilegal downloading and copying issue is in this industry. Let me assure you I have seen the evidence, some of it well documented, and it is indeed shocking. There are many people who read this website who are also well aware of the download websites, forums and groups (even on facebook!!) that link to downloads on mp3 sharing web sites. One site I was sent to had every single new cd released in the last 10 years. All cds were posted in a separate thread and to reveal the download link you had to leave a comment (ironically the most popular comment was Toda! People saying Thank you for being given stolen property … ) This was also a way that you could track how many illegal downloads each album got, by the comments left in each thread. The popular CDs had in the amounts of over 5,000 comments. Even standard albums with no hits from newbies had at the very least a couple thousand. There are DOZENS of such websites. Just do the math.

    Now keep in mind that the best selling Jewish CDs dont do more than 30,000 hard cd sales …. But on these download sites alone, with numbers that are very documented, there are cds that offer download link to over 5,000 people. That’s just ONE website. Now multiply that by a dozen websites, and multiply that by the amount of people everyone of those people sent the link to their friends or family.

    But hey, the priority here is to be angry at the singers because they have no right to complain when people steal their music.Because they do maybe 5-10 weddings a month at 800 a wedding.wow. Those stinken rich divas. What chutzpah.

  29. Kol Isha says:

    There are two very separate issues here.

    The first issue is that none of us wants to hear anyone whining that we don’t buy their product. We have a right to spend our hard earned money any way we like and if you don’t put out a quality product, Mr. Singer, don’t expect us to buy it.

    The second issue here is the very real issue of theft. Plain and simple, copying an album you didn’t buy is stealing from countless people. Is it really worth burning to save a lousy eighteen bucks?

  30. price says:

    chez, no one was suggesting that because a singer/producer invests tons of time and money into a CD you are required to buy it. In fact, we do still live in a free country, you are not forced to do anything against your will.

    The point of saying that a lot of time and money is invested into the cd is mainly to explain to a person who thinks its ok to copy a cd. If you copy it, it means less cds sold to repay the investment that a singer/producer invest.

    And again, no one has the right to say that a singer “anyway makes his money at concerts/wedding” that does NOT justify stealing. Stealing does not become ok when you assume (google assume) how much a person makes.

    Dont want to buy a cd? You don’t have to. But don’t copy it either. If you think a singer stinks and has no business making cds, don’t buy them, but dont copy them. Copying means you have possession of the music, which you need to pay for.

  31. Sunny says:

    Price and Kol Isha, I agree that copying Cds is stealing and it is dead wrong. I do not in any way, shape or form support it. No, stealing is not okay because singers make their money from weddings and concerts. Singers know that these thieves exist and would be fools to put out an expensive album if there was no profit. They are puttng out albums for concerts and weddings.
    I agree with Chez. Do not spend $100,000 on an album if you will lose money on it. You do not need a whole string and brass section to record the album, just make sure the songs are really good and the album will sell (Sheves Achim, anybody?).
    Mr. Google I know MostlyMusic has gift cards but I don’t get them for free so I’m not buying any.
    Price
    1. Everyone who invested money in the CD sees profit from any sale whether the Judaica store, website or Amazon/Itunes.
    Judaica stores make most of their money from selling books, seforim and Judaica not CDs. Next time you visit your local Judaica store check what everyone is buying, it’s generally books, seforim, a tallis etc.
    2. I agree. You cannot steal from anyone regardless of how rich he is.
    You can say please don’t steal from me. When a CD says “all rights reserved unauthorized copying is aganst the law and Halacha”, it is saying don’t steal from me. You can include a copy of the Halachos of stealing Cds in the booklet. You can produce more DVDS than CDs (which I won’t be buying) because DVDs are harder to copy. You can even stop producing albums if it doesn’t pay. I have no problem with that.
    What I do have a problem with is the constant nagging how EVERYONE is copying your CDs and your selling so few copies so you can’t make a parnassah. I am not copying your CDs so I don’t want to hear your rant. If you actually put out a CD worth buying, I won’t buy it because you’ll still be complaining how everyone’s robbing you blind. I don’t like supporting complainers so I will take my business elsewhere and support an artist who doesn’t complain.
    I never saw any of the file sharing websites you are refering to and do not have facebook account. So no, I don’t know how widespread this stealing is. I will repeat again that it is dead wrong and it is not worth it to steal for a measly $15.
    But Price, do you think these ppl. are going to stop copying Cds because MBD started a crusade aganst it? I certainly don’t. So all artists please just stop complaining and instead use all that extra time to find a way to prevent illegal copying (maybe they can have a product code so the CD can only be copied onto a few computers much like Microsoft and Adobe does?)
    3. Pritzus on mainstream sites: I agree Itunes has inappropriate pictures. However you can go onto Amazon, their homepage is a letter from their CEO, type in Avraham Fried, MBD, Gabay etc. and click on buy with 1 click. You see no pritzus and can buy many Jewish albums.
    4. I know many ppl. who do not buy music because their tuition, morgage, electric bill or whatever come first and they can’t afford to spend $20 on a new album (very often this can be a kollel couple). By lowering the price to $10 they can afford to buy a CD once in a while. Most of the illegal copiers will probably still be making their illegal copies but maybe some will see the light if the price is lowered.
    I suppose Baryo was thinking along these lines when he set the price for his album at 9.99.
    5. Regarding singles: compare Chevra’s raninu to Unity for Justice. I am not saying they sold alot of copies but which sold more- I would bet Unity for Justice, I know I bought it because it was only a dollar.
    6. There are thousands of mainstream artists. Most are not like Jessica Simpson, Paris Hilton and Justin Beiber who make million from tours, endoresments and product sales. Most of these artists are performing for pennies hoping to sell a few copies of their albums. They are the ones you see singing live at the boardwalk,mall or wherever and some of them are really good but they just getting by.
    Regarding your last comment, I am embarrassed that frum Jews have no qualms stealing someone else’s property and I do not in any way condone it. I am not the one doing it so I don’t need to nor want to hear artists constantly complaining about it.
    If I don’t like an artist I wouldn’t waste a blank CD on his music.

  32. price says:

    Sunny,

    So you are saying that a singer should just assume before he even decides to invest in an album that since so many people are copying and they might not make any money on it therefore they shouldn’t even bother? That’s a pretty sad way of doing business don’t you think?

    How about a singer or investor assumes that people, supposedly Frum, G-d fearing and loving people, will BUY a CD if they are interested in it? Instead of stealing?

    As written before, I’m curious what sales figures you have seen to assume that Sheves Achim was a finical success. How many CDs did they sell? How much money have they made from weddings, bar mitzvahs, or concerts? Do you have access to that information to support your statements? Or perhaps the people you are friends with “all know the songs” so that must mean they sold a lot of CDs.

    Let’s talk about why we think we have the right to tell someone how to invest in their parnasah. It’s a fact, yes – a fact, that CD’s that are produced for close to nothing to save money do not sell. I will, for the sake of embarrassment, not list the CDs that have been released in this fashion over the last 5 years. But if you do your research and know your stuff, there have been at least a handful of well known, well promoted CDs that were done in the way you suggested. They did not sell well.

    You do not have to spend 100,000, that is agreed, but you can’t spend $10,000 either.

    There are two main reasons.

    1) A fake sound is a fake sound, and even if you don’t think you notice it, many people do, and you do to, you might just not have out your finger on it. You can’t imitate a strings section, unless you go to the top studio engineers in this field, and if you did your research on that you will find that the top engineers charge almost as much to replicate large string sections than to just record it live.
    2) The second reason is that whether you agree or not, “the market” recognizes a certain style and sound as the “norm” of Jewish music. Horn sections, string sections, etc, are part of that. CDs and artists that have tried to veer to outside the box might have received critical acclaim, by fans wanting more “different” sounds and feels. But they paid the price heavily in the stores. The fact remains, as much as the loud minority claims for “different” sounds and outside the box albums, the frum, cd buying oilem, does not support it.

    The best selling artist today in Jewish music is Yaacov Shwekey. Take a look at any of his recent “regular” albums and you will see that is the standard of Jewish Music sound/style wise today. Anyone who has been too different has paid the price. Again, I will not go into names, but I think if you think of the most “different” style of CDs released in the mainstream you will be able to ascertain some examples.

    Returning to this original point, I don’t understand why we think we have a right to tell someone how to make a CD or how to invest in it. We have the right not to buy it, but that’s it. We shouldn’t pretend to know what a singers personal finical situation is. Perhaps someone really believes in a singer and felt that they would invest in his Parnasah to help him out. Maybe a singer who loves music feels he isn’t a Kollel learner, he can’t be a teacher, he doesn’t have money for med or law school. He isn’t good with numbers, he can’t sell mortgages or stocks. Maybe he is a creative, and is investing his entire Koach into this career. He rummages the money together, and finds an investor and then works for over a year to create what he feels is a musical treasure.

    Hey, it might be trash, but it’s HIS treasure. While we both agree no one should steal, and we both agree just because he made it, we aren’t obligated to buy it, I think we don’t agree that this person some how loses the right to be angry if someone steals his product. Like I said, he spent so much, all his koach, and/or money invested into his success. Why do we think we are allowed to tell him to stop complaining?

    Furthermore, it seems based on your comments that you feel that MBD has no right to complain because he says “everyone” copies, and I think, if I were a doctor, and you were on my couch, I would posit that you feel under appreciated. You feel that since you DO pay for his CD, even if you aren’t happy with the quality, that he isn’t appreciating your purchase, he simply blankets “everyone” together in the copying complaint.

    I really think this might be the root of your issue. Because I know you aren’t telling me someone is not allowed to be angry when he sees irrefutable proof, well documented on the websites that I discussed before, that 10’s, maybe 100’s of thousands of people are taking this CD he worked on and spent money on without paying for it. Yes, 20,000 people bought the CD. Maybe he should say more strongly thanks to those 20,000 people.

    But put yourself in his shoes. When you see the evidence I suggest exists, it’s quite deflating. I am not MBD, I can promise you that, but if I put myself in his shoes, I think that it would be better if I made CD, invested time and money into it, and no one bought it. But no one copies it either. That would be something I could take away from then. I could say, they didn’t like song selection, they didn’t like the style, they didn’t like the arrangements, etc, etc … But when people DO possess it, but don’t buy it, how frustrating is that?

    Imagine opening a coffee shop and you open your doors, and 30 days later you see you sold a below average amount of coffee, but you know for a fact that 10 times as many people did come in, drink the coffee, but left without paying. So you know people are taking the product, but they just aren’t paying for it.

    This brings us back to where someone says “make a better product and they WILL buy it”, and this is where I will repeat, a person has the right NOT to buy a CD, but they do not have the right to posses it without paying. You are right, make a better CD and I will buy it, but it isn’t ok to copy it either. This is something we have establish you agree with me on, so I don’t see how we could be on different thought processes regarding the concept that it is demoralizing to artists that they work on something for such a long time, work hard to secure funding and then while some complain that quality isn’t good enough to buy the product, but people take it anyway in the form of copying.

    I think we should also, for a moment, move away from MBD. MBD has become the spokesperson for “whining” about copying because he is the most vocal, but I don’t think its fair to paint the entire industry as whining or nagging.

    (An unfair depiction either way in my opinion, sort of like telling your wife she is nagging you about something that is really just a husband being lazy, like throwing out the trash or making sure the windows are closed and locked.)

    As I mentioned before, many other people depend on cd/dvd sales in order to make a parnasa, so to punish the struggling drummer who won’t get paid because the CD isn’t selling since people who should be buying it are stealing it, is unfair. Some people don’t get paid in advance, some people who do get paid for their work, regardless of the cd selling, will not get that gig next time around if the artist can’t afford to make another CD, even thought thousands have people have it, only 1/10th of that bought it. So he didn’t make enough money to justify making another one. Or more directly, let’s say the guy who drives the cds from the warehouse to the Judaica store. He has no direct connection to the artists initial investment in the CD. He simply is being given a product (it could be chocolate cake for all that matters) and he gets paid to bring the CDs to the store. But if things get worse, if people copy more and more (as the evidence and technology advances are suggesting) then he has less and less work to do and he will have to be let go. Copying affects other people, not just MBD.

    Gift Cards:
    I think what Mr. Google was implying was that Mostly Music, just like Amazon has the ability to purchase gift cards. I don’t know who is buying you so many Amazon gift cards, but most frum people are not loaded up with Amazon gift cards. Futher more, whoever is buying an amazon gift card for a friend can also buy a mostly music gift card for a friend they know is heavy into Jewish Music.

    Who makes money?
    Judaica stores make most of their money from selling books, seforim and Judaica not CDs. Next time you visit your local Judaica store check what everyone is buying, it’s generally books, seforim, a tallis etc.
    I’m not sure what outlining what product sells more at a Judaica store has to do with why a Jewish CD is sold there or if someone should buy a Jewish CD in a Jewish store.

    Let me just attempt to address the thing I do understand you are saying, that the same people make money off a sale of a hard CD at Eichlers, also make that money when a or download is sold.

    First of all, that is only true in theory. Instead of the frum guy at Eichlers making money when a CD is sold there, the nice people in Cupertino, Ca at Apple World Headquarters make the money. Why should the artist/producer/label have to pay Apple 30% for something that Eichlers can do, or online Jewish music website can offer. (please revisit my earlier post regarding the notion that the extra 5-10 minutes it takes to download a CD on a Jewish music website should not be the reason you don’t buy a CD. Then feel free to continue where I rail on how lazy technology has made us today, it’s actually disgusting, as a society, how spoiled we have become. We can no longer even press buttons, we need to go get the newest phone with voice commands (See Apple Siri))

    If it were so easy to invent a code, or new technology to prevent copying, trust me, the people who have 100’s of millions, maybe even billions, invested in music, the major music companies, would have come up with it.

    When mostlymusic used to have codes (known as DRM) people hated it. How annoying was it to always verify your music, YOU bought. The reason DRM was done away with by goyish sites (and lets give a hand to MostlyMusic for dropping the DRM even before apple offered DRM free tracks!) The reason it was done away with was that it was punishing the one group of people NOT stealing music. I don’t think people who spend money on downloads or the hard cd should be punished or made nuts. You want a code like Adobe? How annoying is that every time you get a new computer or have an issue and have to reinstall windows you have an issue with reinstalling Adobe. The people who download it for free on file sharing websites don’t have to deal with the hassle.

    Let’s talk about the price point again for a moment. There are conflicting claims made on this front. One is that if CD’s were cheaper more people would buy them. The other is that, fighting copying and stealing is pointless, because you think those types of people would ever buy the CD anyway? There is a little tiny space in between here that somehow suggests, of the lets say, 100,000 total people who copy, lets say MBD Kulam Ahuvim (a number I strongly believe is realistic), if the price for the CD and or download was $9.99, how many less would copy it? 10,000? 5,000?

    I think on this we are both right and both wrong. I do not think that there will be a huge swell of new sales if the price is dropped to 9.99. I think 1) people who begrudglingly buy the CD at 11.99 or 14.99 because they think that price is unfair, will suddenly become happier. And 2) A very small percentage, maybe 10% of those who steal will buy it. Hey, if there was a way to guarantee the industry that all 100,000 people who copy a cd will buy it, if only it was 9.99, I can promise you they would make the switch in a heartbeat. Do the math, it’s 3-4 times as much money in sales. You know what, this is why the Goyish industry does it that cheap. Not because it deters more than the same 10% from copying, but because of the sheer numbers of the math. When 100,000 people download a CD for 9.99 it’s a lot of money. But in the Jewish industry, even though there are hundreds of thousands of Jews in NY alone, no one sells more than 30,000 CD’s nationwide. There are probably 30,000 Jews in a 5 mile radius in Brooklyn.

    I want to just bring to light one other form of copying that you might not be aware of, but does exist. I and other friends have seen and heard first person accounts of people who sell you music in bulk. They will charge you X amount of money and in return they “load up” your mp3 with a certain amount of music. I have actually seen this advertised in the yidish speaking papers. There was a group of people who were chased away from 13th avenue a few times who had set up tables on the street and were offering this.

    In Israel this is actually a much more known, widespread issue, in many stores people openly offer this deal to people. I’ve also heard from Bochurim in Yeshivas that there are Bochurim who charge and other guys bring them their ipods and they do the same thing, they load up their ipods with 100’s of Gigs of Jewish Music.

    iTunes/Amazon:
    Before I go further, I’m extremely delighted that we finally see eye to eye on this important issue. iTunes is filled with such treife, I am shocked people still suggest we send our friends and family to visit such a makom tumah.

    Part of what you are saying regarding Amazon is correct. The front page is less complicated, and shows less products than the front page of iTunes. (A business practice that are routinely criticized for in the business world, google the Google employee and his negative comments on Amazons business practices in a post he accidently sent out that made a lot of noise last week on the tech blogs)

    But the fact remains that this letter you describe was not present just now in a test. It showed me products that I might like based on my recent purchases (mostly school supply items )

    Additionally, when I went to the direct product page for Avraham Fried I realized two things. 1) Your theory only works when someone davka knows what they want to buy and 2) Even though the overall page just shows Frieds CD, the links to New releases, music cds, best sellers, browse genres, are all one click away. In fact, I clicked on new releases and there were all those no jewish cds, with so many covers and album titles for that matter, filled with pritzes and tumah. So if you (or your kid) decide to enage on some curiosity and click new releases, or, simply not sure what they want to buy, just want to browse general Jewish music that option leads to problems.

    It’s still a goyish site that sells predominately treif music. So I apply the same logic, which you agreed with, regarding iTunes.

    Baryo:
    No disrespect meant to Baryo, but again, you do not have facts to support your points. You are not privy to sales numbers. If Baryo sold like crazy, maybe you’d have something here, but as far as my sources can confirm, Baryo’s sales are not changing the Jewish music industry. The same goes for the Chevra’s Raninu VS. Unity for Justice. You do not know the sales numbers on either, so you can’t correctly assume anything other than you did not buy one, but did buy the other. I would also suggest that you reread my comments regarding the thought process of artists regarding why they used to sell singles (very rare actually even then) in stores for X amount and now either give them away for free or sell for 99 cents. (Or for Tzedakah, which is probably a much bigger reason Unity did any numbers at all)

    I do have some insight on what Unity did sales wise on iTunes and Mostly and it actually did 3 times better on mostly music. But overall, it wasn’t a major seller.

    Big Goyish Artists/Smaller Artists:

    We were discussing that in Goyish world the big names make millions on concerts tours, and you said that there are only a handful of people in that range. Just keep repeating this to yourself – “it’s a numbers game”, and that’s what it is. There are only a handful of “A Listers” in Jewish Music that sell “big” numbers. But in Goyish world there are at least 100 BIG NAMES. They don’t all come out with CD’s at the same time, and some go away for a few years and come back, some go away even longer! But there are a ton of big names. In Jewish music what do we have? Fried, MBD, Shwekey, Lipa, Helfgot, Miami Boys Choir, YBC, …. Then where do you go next, maybe you can put another 5 names in that list? The people who move the big big numbers, that sell out Hasc, Ohel, the big concerts? It’s a numbers game. The truth is, even the smallest “big hits” artists sell 50 times what the biggest Jewish artists sell. And yes, they also sell out concerts, just think of how many bands, groups are out there from Rock to R & B to Rap to Jazz to Pop. 200 groups? 100 Diva female pop stars? How many old timers are STILL selling out shows and selling CDs, Barbara Streisand, Mariah Carrey, Tony Bennet, Celine Deon.

    The fact remains, even the B and C list secular artists and groups still make tons of money from shows and appearances and TV reality shows, Jessica Simpson hasn’t put out a hit CD in ten years but she has a clothing line and a series of fragrances. You just can’t compare the two. The point is the secular industry artists haven’t relied on CD sales to make a living in decades probably. I often hear comparisons between secular and jewish cd pricing and availability. These two have no business being compared. They aren’t similar in any way. And the biggest reason? Again? Say it with me my friend … it’s a numbers game.

    I think we should take a moment to focus on the things we both agree on here and maybe reiterate those points.

    Artists need to put out quality albums, no one has any obligation to buy a CD, just because a frum person made it. If a CD is bad, it won’t sell, and people will not buy it. And they shouldn’t buy it!

    On the other hand, no one has a right to possess, in the form of copying or illegally downloading music. If you don’t want to buy it, you shouldn’t possess it either.

    If we all followed these two primary issues, there would be no problems on any side of the coin.

  33. Kol Isha says:

    Sonny: Lest you think that MBD is the only one who finds copying to be a problem, you might want to check this out. This is the brainchild of a producer in London, who is collaborating with many, many people, all of whom are looking to address the problem of music being copied illegally. Maybe they are less, in your words, “whiny”, about it than MBD, but make no mistake he is not the only one who is finding this to be a serious issue.

    http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=16180&hl=copyright

  34. OutOfTowner says:

    Wow I am late to the party! I don’t have much to add to most of the discussion, as I think it’s all been covered, but 2 side points that need to be dealt with:

    1. Sunny: Tapes themselves cost much more money (the blanks)than CDs, but when people started selling CDs instead of tapes, there was a need to get new more expensive and newer technological equipment and that’s probably why it costs more.

    Chez: I can tell by your comment that you have no idea what goes into recording or how things are done. Point being, the exact instruments you mentioned (drums, bass, and piano) are all part of the rhythm section and are indeed in fact usually recorded (on separate tracks) at the same time! To record them on the same track would be foolish, and the drums are actually recorded on multiple tracks (each drum has its own microphone which inputs to a different track). This is needed to be able to make even levels and make the listening more pleasurable later. The music is recorded in layers (1st rhythm, then brass, etc…) and at the end, 100s of hours go in to make an even sound and to mix all the tracks evenly. When people cut corners, it sounds bad and cheap. I did a simple demo in studio and it took many hours of work!

  35. Yossi says:

    @kol isha …. my comments were not meant to attack anyone… but if you sell music, you should and will be bias…. Also, “real men don’t comment using fake email addresses”…. there is no reason why YOU have to know who i am… Most other sites don’t require an email address…. its not like the other commenters will know who i am.. and mind you, you yourself are under the misleading alias ‘kol isha’… anyway, the proof is in the pudding, if you really didn’t have a bias, you wouldn’t have gotten so upset because of a really, objectively non offensive comment… and “you’ve been warned”? who talks like that? What kind of rude person are you? who do you think you are? stop trying to be a control freak of your site, and let the people have their opinion! I cannot think of another site that doesn’t let a relatively free format comments… screw you and all your sites, and bad PR guys… I shall not visit this site anymore, nor shall i purchase anything from MM again. You guys probably sell all the email adress to spam anyway

  36. Kol Isha says:

    Yossi: I am publishing your comment so that you can show the world who you really are. I don’t sell music, I just write for and coordinate a staff of people who take hours out of their busy day to write about music, which others seem to enjoy, even if you don’t. Comments get reviewed on this site and sometimes rejected because as the JEWISH music report, it is not appropriate to publish lashon hora. You have a problem with that?

    You made assumptions that the writer was out to sell music and personally attacked one of my writers which is offensive. You don’t like that? Sorry. I have no charata here.

    I was more than happy to identify myself when I tried to email you to let you know why I wasn’t posting your comment and to ask you to rephrase your comment without attacking the writer. I emailed you from my personal email account, with my name on it and have no problem identifying myself. I have nothing to hide. Clearly you do.

    As for what Mostly Music does with email addresses that post on this site, I wouldn’t have a clue. I don’t work for Mostly Music, I don’t work for anyone who sells music. But I am willing to bet that the powers that be at Mostly Music do not have access to the email addresses that come up here, only administrators of the site.

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